PATSY DESCRIBES CONCERNS ABOUT FLEET & PRISCILLA

Excerpts from Patsy Ramsey interview with BPD, June 23, 1998

Full transcript: http://jonbenetramsey.pbwiki.com/Legal%20Documents

9 TOM HANEY: In the earlier

10 interview, and I think it was the one on April

11 30 last year, the Whites' name came up as

12 because they were formerly very good friends

13 that you called that morning, but people that

14 you were now suspicious of or something about

15 their behavior.

16 Could you tell us what about them

17 has changed and what you have noticed?

18 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, I guess --

19 every --

20 TOM HANEY: Be candid.

21 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, everything

22 that -- you know, I mean, everything. Our

23 relationship was perfectly normal and fine, and

24 like I said, there are close friends who called

25 first thing that morning. And it was a very

1 traumatic morning, obviously, for everyone

2 there. And people handled things differently,

3 and I know that -- but, suffice to say that

4 Fleet and Priscilla, Fleet probably more so,

5 just on a number of different occasions started

6 reacting very strangely.

7 TOM HANEY: Okay. How did he

8 react?

9 PATSY RAMSEY: Well --

10 TOM HANEY: What did he react to.

11 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, I guess the

12 first -- let's see. The first time -- I mean,

13 you know, after we found JonBenet, I mean I was

14 just in shock and really was -- was not paying

15 too much attention to things. But the first

16 time I really realized that something was amiss

17 was when we were going to go to Atlanta for the

18 funeral on the Lockheed plane, and there was

19 some like scuttle, confusion or something, why

20 Fleet was not going on that plane. I mean our

21 close friends that had been basically -- you

22 know, I don't know what they were doing, John

23 and my girlfriends were bathing me and feeding

24 me and taking me to the bathroom. I mean I was

25 just immobile for all intents and purposes.

1 And -- and I just remember hearing

2 something that John Fernie was going to detain

3 Fleet because he was in no condition to be put

4 on that plane.

5 TOM HANEY: No condition due to?

6 PATSY RAMSEY: He was -- and like I

7 say, I am kind of like just catching, you know,

8 wafts of these conversations. But that was my

9 first recollection. I picked up on something

10 that Fleet was not acting right. And they were

11 going to keep him from going on the private

12 plane back to Atlanta.

13 So anyway, I didn't want to think

14 too much about it, and then when we were in

15 Atlanta, I just sort of remember Priscilla

16 standing in my mother's living room, family

17 room, you know, just kind of like this and

18 saying, "well, I know what's going on" and she

19 said, "if you would give me a few minutes of

20 your time, I could let you in on some things."

21 And I turned to her and I said,

22 "Priscilla, how can you know so much?" And I

23 said, "I am the mother of this child. And I

24 know nothing."

25 TOM HANEY: What was she referring

1 to?

2 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't have a clue.

3 I really, I mean, you know, so many times I wish

4 I would have taken her up on it to see what the

5 hell she was talking about. There was just her

6 -- you know, it was just this kind of, I know

7 what's going on here and you don't. And if you

8 give me a few minutes of your time, I could clue

9 you in.

10 TOM HANEY: But she didn't give you

11 a clue or--

12 PATSY RAMSEY: Didn't say, didn't

13 say. So that was like the second little thing.

14 So then, let's see. We were at --

15 we were at my parents, and we had different

16 friends who had come in from Colorado and my

17 friends in Atlanta were putting them up in homes

18 and what not, and my understanding is that Fleet

19 and Priscilla had been invited by my brother and

20 sister-in-law Jeff Ramsey to stay in their home.

21 So I was in bed, and somebody,

22 either my sister, or another friend who was

23 staying there or something, said that Jeff had

24 just called to my parents' home, and said that

25 Fleet was totally off the deep end, had like

1 gotten my brother-in-law and my brother-in-law

2 is -- you think my husband is docile, my

3 brother-in-law is, you know, very docile. Non-

4 confrontational. So Fleet got hold of Jeff's

5 collar, you know, like this, in his face, you

6 know, being very confrontational.

7 TOM HANEY: Is built --

8 PATSY RAMSEY: Sorry?

9 TOM HANEY: Is Fleet a pretty good

10 size?

11 PATSY RAMSEY: Yes, he's a large

12 man. And anyway, Jeff had called and said to my

13 dad, they are on their way to your house. Do

14 you have a gun? And I mean for Jeff Ramsey to

15 say something like this in pretty wild. So I

16 just remember, you know, somebody scooping me up

17 and Burke up and my mom and all this and we went

18 downstairs to our basement where my mother had

19 set up some temporary beds and then like, you

20 know, like thrown on the beds, like "don't

21 anybody say anything" and you know, John and my

22 dad were going to try to calm them down or

23 something. You know. Just --

24 TOM HANEY: Okay. What do you mean

25 again, what did--

1 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know, Jeff

2 was saying that Fleet is just crazy. He is

3 crazy, he is coming over there, I don't know

4 what's happened. You know, he's off his rocker.

5 TOM HANEY: Did he give you a clue

6 though? I mean here your good friends--

7 PATSY RAMSEY: See, I don't know,

8 because I wasn't -- wasn't having this --

9 TOM HANEY: The conversation?

10 PATSY RAMSEY: I am like hearing

11 this thirdhand.

12 TOM HANEY: Okay.

13 PATSY RAMSEY: All I know is there

14 was like some big hubbub here about Fleet and

15 Priscilla were going nutso and they were coming

16 over and somebody just crazy, he is crazy, he is

17 coming over there, I don't know what's happened.

18 You know, he's off his rocker.

19 TOM HANEY: Did he give you a clue

20 though? I mean here your good friend's--

21 PATSY RAMSEY: See, I don't know

22 because I wasn't, I wasn't having this

23 conversation.

24 TOM HANEY: The conversation?

25 PATSY RAMSEY: I am like hearing

1 this thirdhand.

2 TOM HANEY: Okay.

3 PATSY RAMSEY: All I know is this

4 was like some big hubbub here about Fleet and

5 Priscilla are going nutso and they are coming

6 over and everybody is afraid of them and

7 da-de-da-de-da.

8 TOM HANEY: So do they come over?

9 PATSY RAMSEY: They came over. I

10 do not see them, but John I think called down or

11 something, Jeff Ramsey said he did not want them

12 staying with them. I think John Ramsey and my

13 dad somehow got them to stay in a hotel or

14 something. There in Montreux (phonetic).

15 Then my dad said, you know, I don't

16 know what day this was, all these days were

17 running together. But then my father said that

18 Priscilla called, I guess they were on their way

19 back to Colorado, she called, my dad had just

20 reamed him out, said that she didn't like what

21 she saw in Atlanta one bit. She thought that

22 everything -- that all our friends were, you

23 know, hoity-toity, rich snobs and blah, blah,

24 blah. I mean, just like crazy things.

25 I mean, you know, here we are

1 mourning the death of this child, for crying out

2 loud, and she goes off on this cultural

3 ventilation or something. You know, it just

4 didn't, it didn't make sense. And then so I

5 mean my dad -- (INAUDIBLE) -- so way that was

6 kind of a little incident.

7 TOM HANEY: Makes sense.

8 PATSY RAMSEY: And then so I mean

9 my dad is one (INAUDIBLE) so anyway, that was

10 kind of a little incident. But I think some

11 other things happened that I wasn't really privy

12 to. I think John may be more aware of.

13 But then the other time that was

14 really frightening to me is, we had come back to

15 Colorado and John and I were in Father Rol's

16 office, in the church, and my dad was sitting

17 out in the little waiting area. And Father Rol

18 and John and I were praying, and Fleet White

19 burst into the door, burst into the office.

20 And he is just, his eyes are just

21 wild. And you know, I kind of did this number,

22 and he got down on his knees, and looked like --

23 and had a business card in his hand, and he was

24 leaning over to my husband saying, "you know

25 what this is, John, you know what this means,

1 John, you know what I am going to have to do

2 with this, John, I am going to have to handle

3 this my way, John."

4 I mean he was just on and on and

5 on. And I said, "Fleet, Fleet, what is it?"

6 And he handed me this business card

7 and it was a business card from some journalist

8 or something, and it had a note on the back.

9 And it said, I don't know exactly word for word,

10 but something to the effect of, you know, Mr.

11 White, there has been some question as to

12 whether it was you or John Ramsey who removed

13 the tape from JonBenet's mouth. You know. And

14 about the sequence of the basement discovery.

15 Because we had talking about this.

16 Well, he said they are after me and

17 my family now, John, I am going to have to

18 handle -- and he was just like a maniac and

19 Father Rol said to calm down and you know, he

20 said, "I am going to handle it my way, John, my

21 way, John and you know, Father Rol was just

22 trying to get them to calm down. "It's okay

23 Fleet," you know, "what do you mean by your

24 way?" You know, calm down. You know, it will

25 be okay.

1 So that was just, that just shook

2 me, you know, and then there are just -- you

3 know, may or may not know just kind of

4 subsequent things, like instead of going to the

5 governor in Colorado they went to the governor

6 of Colorado and asked that Hunter be taken off

7 the case or that he was doing a bad job or

8 something, and I mean this is like a year later,

9 you know, and I mean they are still just -- so,

10 I mean, you know, I am trying to say okay,

11 everybody was traumatized, you know. Try to put

12 my shoe on the other foot.

13 If had been Daphne, if I had been

14 there, what would I have done, you know. But I

15 mean, my God, you know, it's my child, and I

16 have been trying to get my family back to some

17 semblance of normalcy. My child in the school

18 and friends and you know. And I don't read

19 newspapers, and I can't watch television,

20 because it you know, value else me and surfaces

21 it all over again. You know, and then to hear

22 these people who are not even related and they

23 are going to the governor and trying to you know

24 I mean just kind of weird to me.

25 Maybe I am reading things into it.

1 I don't know. I can't imagine, you know, that

2 anybody that has children -- you know, when you

3 have children you know what a precious life that

4 is, and you know what a -- you know, I can't

5 imagine that you can do that to another child.

6 I can't -- I can't bring myself to think that

7 they would have actually done this. But

8 somebody did it. You know.

9 And we have been told that it's a

10 lady that knew us, knew we were leaving, knew we

11 were there. The dog wasn't there, knew we

12 didn't use the alarm, you know, so --

13 TOM HANEY: And these were all

14 things that the Whites would have known?

15 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah.

16 TOM HANEY: So do you suspect

17 Fleet?

18 PATSY RAMSEY: Oh, God, you know, I

19 just -- you know, I -- I guess in a way I look

20 at everybody as a suspect. And with this

21 erratic behavior it sounds pretty freaky to me.

22 Last night we were reading through

23 some paperwork or something, and I don't

24 remember whether somebody interviewed Fleet and

25 it was something that was like, wait a minute,

1 that's (INAUDIBLE) I mean to -- but he knew --

2 he knew so much detail about the letter. It's

3 just something about, and this has been

4 somebody, I forget who -- I am rambling.

5 Somebody had interviewed Fleet and

6 then had written up a report about their

7 findings and that he seemed to know almost word

8 for word the ransom letter and he commented

9 about how the structure of it was so well tied

10 together. I mean, I have read the ransom

11 letter, I couldn't tell you what the structure

12 was, you know. He seemed like really interested

13 or something. It seemed unusual to me.

14 So I mean, it would be a horrible

15 blow if I do find out that it was somebody that

16 was that close to us. But it was somebody and

17 there is, I guess -- I guess could be anybody.

18 TOM HANEY: What is your current

19 relationship with the Whites?

20 PATSY RAMSEY: We have not -- we

21 have not spoken.

22 TOM HANEY: When is the last time?

23 PATSY RAMSEY: Well I -- when we

24 left town, right in the mild the incident, I

25 remember we were staying with the Stines, Glen

1 and Susan Stine, Fleet White went in to Glen

2 Stine's office at the university, and leaned

3 across the table, demanding to let the Stines

4 see us. And Glen Stine said Fleet, you know,

5 settle down.

6 TOM HANEY: Fleet wanted the Stines

7 to let them (MULTIPLE SPEAKERS)?

8 PATSY RAMSEY: He was just saying

9 that the Stines were keeping us away from them,

10 which wasn't the case. But he was going there,

11 he went into the vice president of the

12 university and (INAUDIBLE). You know what,

13 irrational behavior.

14 TOM HANEY: Is this--

15 PATSY RAMSEY: So anyway, before I

16 left town, (INAUDIBLE) before I left town I took

17 a little teddy bear up to this kid and left a

18 note, little teddy bear, and left a note, opened

19 a card that said you know, we are leaving town

20 or something, JonBenet loves you and whatever.

21 I don't know.

22 And then subsequently I had written

23 a couple of notes, I found a picture of Daphne,

24 that I sent to her and I think I wrote a note,

25 there was a story, one of the tabloids had their

1 photographs, said Ramseys accusing best friends

2 or something, please don't believe these

3 horrible stories, you know.

4 But you know, not (INAUDIBLE) the

5 next thing I heard that they were down in the

6 governor's office (INAUDIBLE).

7 TOM HANEY: This behavior that you

8 have talked about with Fleet pounded on the desk

9 and things, is that out of character for him or

10 is he kind of like that?

11 PATSY RAMSEY: I mean as far as I

12 ever saw, because he was, he didn't -- I don't

13 know exactly what he did for a living. He was

14 not working a nine to five job. You know, I

15 think he was in California, had been in the oil

16 kind of business, so he said, but so he was

17 around the house a lot. He took the kids to

18 school. He dressed them. He -- we called him

19 affectionately Mr. Mom and he just said he was

20 taking a couple of years kind of hiatus to

21 figure it out and get something else going.

22 (The video portion of the tape

23 stopped). So he was always just very loving and

24 he was kind of like a lovable giant kind of, you

25 know, big guy, but just very tender and very --

0087

1 sweet guy, you know. So this, you know,

2 especially that time when he was in Father Rol's

3 office and his eyes were just crazed. I mean I

4 was just staying there going "oh, my God, what

5 has gotten into him."

6 So yes, yes. You know. There is a

7 flicker, you know.

8 TOM HANEY: Prior to the death,

9 what was Fleet's behavior like, especially

10 regarding JonBenet?

11 PATSY RAMSEY: He, I mean, adored

12 our children. You know. They played together a

13 lot. They were at our house, you know, a lot.

14 My children were at their house playing. They

15 had been up to the lake with us, a number of

16 times, for two, three weeks at a time.

17 (The video portion resumed.)

18 PATSY RAMSEY: You know we were I

19 mean --

20 TOM HANEY: Was there anything in

21 this prior behavior that looking back now seems

22 unusual?

23 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, Priscilla was

24 never crazy about me doing this whole pageant

25 with JonBenet, she thought that was just totally

0088

1 unnecessary, because she said you know, it's

2 just not the thing to do. Well, you know, I had

3 grown up doing it, I enjoyed it, I had a lot of

4 friends who had done it. I had very good

5 experience with it. So that's what I brought to

6 the table. My daughter was a performer, she was

7 beautiful, she was outgoing, and flourished in

8 that type of an environment. Daphne was not.

9 You know.

10 So Priscilla would oftentimes say

11 to me, you know, you just, you shouldn't do

12 that, you know, that's not a good thing to

13 happen.

14 I thought, you know, well, you

15 raise your children the way you do and we don't

16 all raise our children the same. So you know,

17 kind of looking back at that and think, you

18 know, did that really get to her or something.

19 I don't know (INAUDIBLE).

20 TOM HANEY: Was there anything else

21 in either of -- either's behavior prior to the

22 death that you like you said looking back now,

23 outside of the pageant thing?

24 PATSY RAMSEY: No, I mean John said

25 -- he and Fleet sailed together, and they were

0089

1 taking -- and Fleet has been sailing for years.

2 I mean he sailed big yachts in the Pacific Ocean

3 and da-de-da-de-da, and so John was getting

4 ready for this Mackinaw Island race and he Fleet

5 were going to move our sailboat from Charlevoix

6 to wherever this race was going to be held, I

7 forget where, Chicago or something.

8 Well, they were in the moves and

9 were pulling into a harbor someplace, and had a

10 big wave and somehow the ropes got spun up in

11 the propeller, kicked off the engine, and they

12 were heading for the --

13 TOM HANEY: Dock?

14 PATSY RAMSEY: The wall. The ocean

15 wall or whatever they call that wall.

16 TRIP DeMUTH: The shore?

17 PATSY RAMSEY: The wall, whatever.

18 And he said Fleet -- and Fleet was supposed to

19 be the experienced yachtsman, you know, he said

20 Fleet just panicked, you know. I mean he was

21 just, John said he was really surprised because

22 I mean here is John who is certainly the layman,

23 and he immediately was trying to, you know, turn

24 the thing backwards and trying to get it out or

25 some, you know, but Fleet, he said Fleet just

0090

1 totally dropped his cool.

2 And long story short, somebody in

3 the yacht club saw them in trouble and the Coast

4 Guard came out and pulled them away from the

5 wall just in time. But John, kind of John's

6 first tip-off that, you know, he wasn't a -- as

7 capable under fire as maybe he would have

8 thought.

9 TOM HANEY: Did they -- did they

10 have words that day over it or was there some

11 problem or just like--

12 PATSY RAMSEY: No. You know, I

13 mean this was one of those stories you talk

14 about over a beer, you know (INAUDIBLE).

15 TOM HANEY: But nothing else?

16 PATSY RAMSEY: No.

17 TOM HANEY: Anything else about the

18 Whites?

19 PATSY RAMSEY: Just I mean, we

20 just, their children were virtually the same

21 age. I just thought we will be life-long

22 friends, because, you know, I enjoyed her, John

23 enjoyed him, the kids had each other. I mean it

24 was just a perfect -- we liked to do a lot of

25 the same things, they seemed to have

0091

1 discretionary income to be able to go places

2 although in that respect John pointed out that

3 all the yacht races and all that stuff was

4 always on our tab. I didn't really pay

5 attention to who was paying for what, but we

6 would pay for the crew and everybody.

7 I always got the impression that

8 Fleet and Priscilla had either family money or

9 something like that. You know. But John said

10 when it came down to actually, you know,

11 splitting it or splitting the hotel or

12 something, that never really happened. So --

13 TRIP DeMUTH: How long did you know

14 them?

15 PATSY RAMSEY: We met the summer I

16 came back from the lake the first time, so that

17 would have been like September-ish of '94.

18 TRIP DeMUTH: You called Fleet Mr.

19 Mom. Why do you do that?

20 PATSY RAMSEY: Just because he was

21 at home all the time. He took the kids to

22 school and he went to the classroom and he, I

23 mean -- she called him her live-in. Their

24 live-in nanny.

25 TRIP DeMUTH: Did Priscilla work?

0092

1 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-uh.

2 TRIP DeMUTH: So was she home most

3 of the time also?

4 PATSY RAMSEY: Yes.

5 TRIP DeMUTH: Who would supervise

6 JonBenet and Burke when they would go over to

7 the Whites' house?

8 PATSY RAMSEY: Both of them.

9 TRIP DeMUTH: Were there any

10 excursions or outings that Fleet White took your

11 children on as well as his children?

12 PATSY RAMSEY: I am sure there

13 probably were.

14 TRIP DeMUTH: Any that you recall?

15 PATSY RAMSEY: Not right off the

16 top of my head. I mean we went biking, out on

17 the bike trails once all together, all of us.

18 TRIP DeMUTH: Would Fleet ever

19 baby-sit the children?

20 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, I knew one

21 time in particular John, we were all up at the

22 lake, up at Charles Lake and John had to fly to

23 New York to do some business, New York City, and

24 Melinda was up there and the Whites. And

25 Priscilla said -- she said, "John is going to

0093

1 New York, let's go shopping for the day."

2 And I said, "who would keep the

3 kids?"

4 She said, "oh, Fleet can take care

5 of the kids."

6 I said, "oh, you're kidding."

7 She said, "no, come on, it would be

8 really fun, let's just go over there for the

9 day." I said okay.

10 So Melinda and Priscilla and myself

11 and Mike Archuleta and John flew to Manhattan,

12 John did his business there, and Priscilla and

13 Melinda and I and Mike Archuleta shopped around

14 for the day and then we flew back to Charles

15 Lake. When I got home, the house was a

16 disaster.

17 TRIP DeMUTH: How many times, how

18 often would Fleet be the baby-sitter for the

19 kids, that you can remember? Can you give me

20 any idea about that? Seldom, never, often?

21 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, I would say

22 when if my kids were over there, it would not be

23 unusual that he would be the baby-sitter,

24 because she might go running around or whatever

25 and he would sit or vice versa.

0094

1 TRIP DeMUTH: And how often were

2 your kids over at his home?

3 PATSY RAMSEY: Maybe once a week.

4 We hadn't seen them a whole lot that fall,

5 because our children were going to different

6 schools. And that was a little sticking point

7 with Priscilla.

8 TRIP DeMUTH: How did JonBenet feel

9 about Fleet? Did she ever indicate anything?

10 PATSY RAMSEY: No.

11 TRIP DeMUTH: Seemed fine?

12 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-hum.

13 TRIP DeMUTH: Thanks, Tom.

14 TOM HANEY: When is the last time

15 you had any contact, personal contact? You said

16 you went to the fair but--

17 PATSY RAMSEY: Probably that

18 episode in Father Rol's office.

19 TOM HANEY: Can you pin that down,

20 approximately when that would have been?

21 Ballpark figure.

22 PATSY RAMSEY: Oh, early '97,

23 February-ish, probably.